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#21 [url]

Mar 19 12 10:58 PM

Question

Will there be a REST and a SLEEP symbol or a different character's icon for when a character is resting or sleeping? Otherwise how one knows he/she is sleeping or resting?

Will there be sleeping items like "bedroll", "tent", or even magics like D&D's Leomund's Secure Shelter; so to have a character rest or sleep "in a more confortable and nobler way" inside a dungeon? For sleeping/resting almost everyday in the cold floor of a hostile dungeon full of monsters is certainly a very likely way of a hero to restore full HP and MP!

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#22 [url]

Mar 20 12 7:38 AM

Thanks for the input.

See, the problem with being able to unequip your pack is that could cause a lot of issues on an online game. With online games, there is a good reason you can't change your inventory. I'll look into it but I can't make any promises. However, nested containers inside of your main pack (such as bags or belts) do work as they should.

I'm going to use Free Hand specifically for consumable items like potions, scrolls and spell books. I may eventually implement a duel-wield ability that you can learn at a certain level, allowing you to equip a weapon in the free hand slot for increased attack strength.

I'm not going to add a job system actually. I am going to do some kind of skill tree though. There will be both regular abilities and level abilities. The regular abilities will be by themselves and can be learned with a spell book (like fire bolt, cold ball, heal minor wounds) and the level abilities can only be learned by reaching a certain strength, intelligence, constitution or dexterity level. Some level abilities will be taught to you automatically as you level up your stats, others you'll have to do a quest to get. The regular abilities also have level requirements but you have to buy them, and only the level abilities will have a tree that you can choose from. Idk... I'm just thinking out loud at this point.

There will be a sleep system eventually but not for a while. I'm going to work on all the other systems first. I had to take out the rest function that was added by the previous dev team cause that doesn't work in a multiplayer game. One could simply keep clicking rest and they'd never have to buy a potion or use a healing spell. I might add it back in with a time delay function but it's on the bottom of my to-do list.

Also, I should mention that field battles (places where more than one person can fight monsters together) will be in real-time and not turn based. Single instance quests and dungeons will be turn based as in the original game, however the original games turn based field battle system doesn't work in a multiplayer environment.

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#23 [url]

Mar 20 12 9:37 AM

well, after some thought and talking to a couple people, I believe it will be possible to set up nested containers exactly as they are in CotW, however it will take some extensive coding. I've already started on it but it won't take less than a few days. I suppose that's not very long if you think about it. In fact, I'd spend a whole month working on the inventory system if it meant it would work right and not give anyone trouble.

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#24 [url]

Mar 21 12 8:19 PM

leptoon wrote:
Thanks for the input.

See, the problem with being able to unequip your pack is that could cause a lot of issues on an online game. With online games, there is a good reason you can't change your inventory. I'll look into it but I can't make any promises. However, nested containers inside of your main pack (such as bags or belts) do work as they should.

I'm going to use Free Hand specifically for consumable items like potions, scrolls and spell books. I may eventually implement a duel-wield ability that you can learn at a certain level, allowing you to equip a weapon in the free hand slot for increased attack strength.

I'm not going to add a job system actually. I am going to do some kind of skill tree though. There will be both regular abilities and level abilities. The regular abilities will be by themselves and can be learned with a spell book (like fire bolt, cold ball, heal minor wounds) and the level abilities can only be learned by reaching a certain strength, intelligence, constitution or dexterity level. Some level abilities will be taught to you automatically as you level up your stats, others you'll have to do a quest to get. The regular abilities also have level requirements but you have to buy them, and only the level abilities will have a tree that you can choose from. Idk... I'm just thinking out loud at this point.


Welcome.
Glad to be helpful somehow.

About the skill tree:
it looks like complex what you're developing (many ways to obtain certain skills), but sounds interesting. However, I think that if those "skills" come from different sources (levels up, quests, abilities' scores, books) you shouldn't classify all of them as "skills"; you could organize such powers into different categories, depending on their origin. Just an idea.
Consider D&D 3rd edition game for example: there are skills, but there are also feats; they work, and are obtained or developed, differently. You can also have proficiencies (like weapon, shield and armor proficiencies...; however, the "weapon proficiencies" had an interesting and particular rule distinction from other powers in the AD&D 2nd edition; I think it was related to points used; as for D&D 3rd edition, the proficiencies are simply included in the general feats' list, so they are just common feats after all), special abilities (from race or class), and magics of course (which would be a special ability from a spellcasting class, but this doesn't matter here as there might be no jobs actually).

You could also consider Ragnarok Online game reference, where there are Active Skills and Passive Skills, an interesting concept stressed out in that game. So for example, the category of powers which would be achieved buy books, could be all Passive powers.

(((((((((((Concerning Skills, have you played Ultima Online?
That game is interesting as a MMORPG (not only for buying/building houses and the possibility of getting a mount or ship), but because there are such uncommon skills (at least for most common hack'n'slash MMORPG) as mining, fishing, cooking, lumberjacking, tailoring, blacksmithy and so on (not that the way they came out to be applied in the MMORPG system was any intelligent; but the main idea was cool; might as well have been based somehow on AD&D 2nd edition skills' list). Well, now, I'm not suggesting CotW Online should have such kind of skills! But I believe it would fit somehow the gameplay, if ever it was feasible.))))))))))))

Now, back to the more 'useful' powers:
Ragnarok Online has an interesting set of both skill tree and spell tree.
Imagine the CotW spell Detect Traps. Well, in the first 'level' of this learned spell, maybe it is quite weak and only detects up to 1 or 2 trap per casting, and quite close to the character. But if you spend more 'points' (or develop it whatever does that mean) on it, it can improve a lot more in many different ways. Also, to have the spell, or to develop it to a certain 'level', could trigger-open the spell tree branches to get other useful spells (as in Ragnarok Online spell tree).

In the single player game Might & Magic VI,
there is also an interesting skill concept:
the Basic, Advanced and Expert features.
You can spend as much points as you like (and have available) in one particular skill, let's say the "Repair Item" skill. It will improve with more points. However, until you're not taught to use your skill in a more sofisticated way, [taught] from an Instructor or a Master NPC (which sometimes are hard to find, in inospitable locations, or gives you a challenge/quest in order to accept teaching you, and some even ask high prices still...), you're will never get the best of that skill. Instructors train you into Advanced level, and usually asks that you have spent at least 4 skillpoints on that skill in order to teach you; Masters train you into Expert level, and only if you're already an Expert; it usually needs at least 7 or 12 skillpoints used up on that skill. A skill in the beggining is always at Basic level.
In that game, spells were learned from spellbooks too,
but you could improve your magic powers as if they were skills, with the difference that there was (for example) a skill of "Fire Magic" (which would affect ALL your spells from the Fire domain); so no needed to spent skillpoints per spell, but for magic domain/school.

Well, those were just some game skill concepts of the best references I remember about. Feel free to discard everything, or modify if get any nice vision from those stuff. Good luck for the skill tree anyways.

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#25 [url]

Mar 21 12 8:57 PM

leptoon wrote:
There will be a sleep system eventually but not for a while. I'm going to work on all the other systems first. I had to take out the rest function that was added by the previous dev team cause that doesn't work in a multiplayer game. One could simply keep clicking rest and they'd never have to buy a potion or use a healing spell. I might add it back in with a time delay function but it's on the bottom of my to-do list.

Also, I should mention that field battles (places where more than one person can fight monsters together) will be in real-time and not turn based. Single instance quests and dungeons will be turn based as in the original game, however the original games turn based field battle system doesn't work in a multiplayer environment.




I've got a figure of how complicated those things concerning time are, for a MMORPG version of CotW.
There is just not an easy way to simply merge both gameplays necessities.

But the idea of single-dungeon quests you've got is VERY thoughtful actually. It is actually the CotW Online gameplay "savior"!
Please, make sure those single quests are LEGION, and LOOONG, and DIFFICULT.

There might also exist a main dungeon (which is not a quest-dungeon) which would work like a battleflield you mentioned.



However, you should ABSOLUTELY try to implement quests for 'party group friends' (if you don't have it in mind already of course), where a certain number of players can join together in a quest as a party group, and the players know they will have to wait the turn of each other to move next. (of course there would also need a technical "escape" for when a particular player becomes inactive). Thinking on that, some turn-based games have implemented time-limit for turn: 30 seconds, 1min... Unlimited... Still, there might be a way to "cancel own participation in the quest" or "ban a player from the quest" if it really come to some trouble; like, player 3 doing nothing all his turns of 30 seconds, or just not collaborating as should.
Note: the party players, while waiting for their turn, should be able to SEE/CHECK what the player who's in his turn is doing, so to make sure he/she is actually checking the map, his/her stats or Inventory, or managing his/her spelllist (and not being AFK for example [no mouse movement]; or just fucking messing around without game purpose).



Concerning the rest/sleep. It's really complicated as you've mentioned, to keep those features as in original CotW, for the dynamics of a MMORPG, and if you want to make the new game a lot more challenging. I still think it's just the CotW's hero way to be able to rest (and even sleep!) in a very hostile dungeon. But whatever; if you've found and will find more adequate ways to restore HP/MP in the middle of the dungeons, it might work as well. May this bit of more challenge turns out to be better after all?

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#26 [url]

Mar 21 12 10:13 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies! I'll take your thoughts into consideration.

I've updated the game a bit. I added a rudimentary skill point system on the inventory page and I've been working on the AI system. Nested packs are pretty much complete, just have to change a couple things.

EDIT: I know this post might seem a little short compared to the long replies but after working on this game all day, my head is in a state of muscle-death and that's how it's been for the last few days. This shit is complicated, it takes five minutes of reading every time I sit down just to wrap my head around it. So when I'm working for hours and hours, don't expect me to say much of anything to anyone. lol

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#27 [url]

Mar 22 12 6:26 PM

leptoon wrote:
Thanks for the helpful replies! I'll take your thoughts into consideration.

I've updated the game a bit. I added a rudimentary skill point system on the inventory page and I've been working on the AI system. Nested packs are pretty much complete, just have to change a couple things.

EDIT: I know this post might seem a little short compared to the long replies but after working on this game all day, my head is in a state of muscle-death and that's how it's been for the last few days. This shit is complicated, it takes five minutes of reading every time I sit down just to wrap my head around it. So when I'm working for hours and hours, don't expect me to say much of anything to anyone. lol


Aye.

And welcome.

Are the quest dungeons going to be randomly generated as in original CotW? That would be great, for no other MMORPG I remember has such feature; the maps being all the same and it's fucking boring.

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#28 [url]

Mar 22 12 11:48 PM

erdwaenor wrote:
leptoon wrote:
Thanks for the helpful replies! I'll take your thoughts into consideration.

I've updated the game a bit. I added a rudimentary skill point system on the inventory page and I've been working on the AI system. Nested packs are pretty much complete, just have to change a couple things.

EDIT: I know this post might seem a little short compared to the long replies but after working on this game all day, my head is in a state of muscle-death and that's how it's been for the last few days. This shit is complicated, it takes five minutes of reading every time I sit down just to wrap my head around it. So when I'm working for hours and hours, don't expect me to say much of anything to anyone. lol


Aye.

And welcome.

Are the quest dungeons going to be randomly generated as in original CotW? That would be great, for no other MMORPG I remember has such feature; the maps being all the same and it's fucking boring.


Yes they will be randomly generated.

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#29 [url]

Mar 23 12 2:47 PM

Here is a layout of the spells I have in mind so far. I've decided to go with a dual power system. Active skills can be learned with spell books while passive skills are learned by spending skill points. I might add more to the list. You can view the current updated list here. Please note that this chart is in no way a final draft and revisions will be made to the skill system randomly. I'll probably have separate elemental powers for weapons as well.

If you're wondering, detect objects will allow you to see random items scattered about. Higher levels of the skill will let you see more (and better) random items.

image

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#30 [url]

Mar 24 12 9:30 AM

Oh and if you didn't notice, I'm drawing out the levels. More levels = greater range of options = more features = better game play = more players. It just makes sense. Max level will be 52 for now. As I add more stuff in the future, I'll probably increase the max level accordingly.

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#32 [url]

Mar 27 12 12:49 AM

Yeah the entire game will be free but there will be a $5 monthly subscription option for some bonuses. I'll work on that after the game is complete though.

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#33 [url]

Mar 29 12 11:56 PM

looks awesome so far. i couldnt find a way to look at my character stats, is that in progress or did i miss it. cant wait for more and to see others on at the same time .

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#35 [url]

Mar 31 12 6:04 PM

Thanks.

Yeah the character stats (and all of the other interface stuff) are all works in progress at the moment. I have most stats in a panel on the right side of the view screen while the adjustable stats are on the inventory page. I'll eventually have one single window for all adjustable stats and abilities, as well as separate smaller inventory windows for bag contents. The GUI in any game is a really delicate thing, you have to make it flow well (IE. easily learned by the end-user) as well as distribute all the necessary information in an out of the way, yet easily accessible fashion. The UI is quite possibly the most important aspect of the game, because it's the part of the game every player will use more than any other part. Most players don't really pay much attention to the UI in a game unless it's either really good or really bad. My aim is to create a UI that both flows well and displays information accurately and efficiently, that doesn't require the user to think about it. The less the user has to worry about how to find something in the UI, the more they can think about completing their next quest or finding that rare item. I also plan to make the tutorial system fully integrated into the game, so as you level up and unlock advanced features, the tutorials will be updated accordingly even if you're late in the game (with the option to disable them, of course). That way, a new player can play through the beginning of the game with a bit of help, without needing to visit a separate tutorial area (I've always hated that about some MORPGs). But now I'm just rambling. lol

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#37 [url]

Apr 4 12 10:13 PM

I've added interiors for some shops in town. I'm also working on the shop system.

I'm adding weapon and armor durability, as well as weapon proficiency and item levels. I'll go into more detail about this in a day or two, just wanted to post this quick update.

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Gil

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#40 [url]

Apr 17 12 9:38 PM

Heh, forum hasn't been this active in ages.

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